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Interview with the Authors

Interview with Stacie Cockrell, Cathy O'Neill, and Julia Stone, co-authors of Babyproofing Your Marriage


1. First, how did the three of you become friends?

Well, it all started twelve years ago when Stacie and Julia became friends in business school. They were in the same study group, struggling to master accounting. (Note: one of them mastered it and one of them didn't.) Then, Stacie and Cathy met when they worked together at an Internet company. (Stacie actually hired Cathy.) And Julia and Cathy later met separately through their husbands. (Over dinner, a much nicer way to meet than accounting or work.)

We'd always enjoyed each other's company, but it wasn't until we became mothers that the friendship deepened to a new level. Now, after writing this book together, we have no secrets. We finish each other's sentences. We joke that it's like a second marriage for all of us. We're even starting to look like each other the way old couples do.

2. What motivated you to write this book? And why did you do it when you clearly had enough to do taking care of all those babies?

Each of our husbands came home one hour too late one night and we said, "That's it. We've had it. We're going to write a book about you." Not really. Basically, we wrote the book we wanted to read, but couldn't find -- the book that would answer the "what is happening to our marriages since we had kids?" questions that were running through our minds. There are so many good books out there about marriage and parenting, but there wasn't one that addressed this specific time in a relationship, and why it can be such a challenge. There wasn't one that spoke to us in a real way, rather than a professorial way. There wasn't one that gave the guys a say in the matter. And there certainly wasn't one that told us what we could do about it. We wanted some answers, so we started talking, first to each other, then to more friends, and then, well, things sort of got out of hand.

3. Why do you think so many couples are caught off guard by the difficulties of transitioning into parenthood?

Two reasons. The first is what we call the Global Conspiracy of Silence. No one tells us what to expect. The seasoned moms don't pull the mom-to-be aside at the baby shower and say, "your sex drive is going to go MIA," or "your husband will drive you nuts because he just won't get it," or "the sleep deprivation will bring you to your knees, girlfriend." Instead, they say, "Cute booties!" There's no real information making it through to the fathers-to-be either. They're even more clueless than we are. No matter how happy and secure the marriage, we can all end up feeling disappointed and frustrated with our spouse at some point because it's harder than we expect. Then, we can't understand why we're irritated with one another when we thought that parenthood would bring us closer together.

A second reason is that on a fundamental level, men and women respond to parenthood differently. It's the Great Mom/Dad Divide. Becoming a parent is an exercise in biological upheaval. It can change us in ways none of us can possibly anticipate. The charming, witty wife turns into control-freak bottle-wielding shrew. The once-perfect and ever-so-helpful husband morphs into a Sleestak stalking around the house with a Perma-Scowl on his face. We can all end up thinking our spouse is just plain crazy.

4. The title, "Babyproofing Your Marriage," sounds a bit drastic. You are careful to say this isn't an anti-baby book and it isn't a husband-bashing book. Why all the disclaimers?

Well, first of all, because we didn't want anyone to misconstrue our purpose here. We didn't want anyone to infer that by "babyproofing" we meant that couples shouldn't have kids. Second, given that three women wrote this book, we wanted to make it clear from the get-go that this is not a bitch session. Men get a fair shake and a loud shout. And third, because we were picking our way through a minefield of tough emotional issues, we felt it was important to make our positive frame of reference very explicit. We love being mothers. We love our husbands deeply. Nothing matters more to us than our families. But we go to some difficult places in this book. There are real feelings of frustration and anger that we tackle head on. Taken out of context, it could sound like we were complaining, or that we think the children are the problem. Neither of which could be farther from the truth.

5. The male point of view is not usually given so much attention in books about marriage and parenting - did you find the men's comments surprising at all? Was it important to you to include their perspective?

Well they're there, aren't they? They keep showing up at the end of the day. It wasn't just important. It was essential. We have an 'It Takes Two to Tango' philosophy in this book. A one-way conversation isn't really going to get anyone anywhere.

The male perspective was really eye-opening for the three of us, particularly when guys spoke about sex. We were slightly stunned when men used words like "reassurance," "recognition," and "connection." We learned that sex is more to them than a just physical act; it is also how they connect emotionally with their wives. They also talked about the "wheels coming off" and "the sky falling down" when they lost that connection. One guy called it "soul destroying" when he was rejected over and over again. This was news to three of us. Before this book, none of us really "got it." Yes, we knew sex was important to men, but we never understood why.

We were also surprised at the guys' intense, often self-inflicted pressure to provide. We didn't realize how hard they can be on themselves. What was not surprising, but still deeply moving, was hearing men talk about how much they loved their kids. We learned that guys bond with their babies on a different timetable than women, but their love is no less intense.

6. Babyproofing is full of the stories of ordinary men and women. Tell us about that.

The book is really more like a conversation. Sort of like a really big, really long dinner party. It's a conversation that started among the three of us and our husbands and grew to include hundreds of men and women around the country - book clubs, church groups, captive fellow passengers on airplanes, and total strangers in line at the supermarket. It didn't matter if someone drove a truck or ran a company - everyone had amazing stories and gems of wisdom to share.

We hope it will start a conversation among couples all over America. That's the whole point really, to get couples talking. The fact that there are so many voices, and they're all saying effectively the same thing, is the ultimate reassurance we all need. When you think you're the only ones going through this, it's personal. When you realize everyone else is in the same boat, it changes the conversation in an instant. "Why are you doing this to me?" becomes "What are we going to do about this?"

7. What was the most eye-opening thing you learned about surviving parenthood while working on this book?

How much of what changes after we become parents is driven by instinct. That men and women really are different animals. That was something the three of us didn't want to believe - in fact, we'd lived most of our lives up to that point trying to prove just the opposite. But behavior that seems incomprehensible is actually pretty normal and there are good reasons behind it. There's the small matter of the propagation of the species. After they have kids, women focus on caring for the offspring to the exclusion of all else. They get compulsive. They want to shut down the factory for a while. Men still want sex, and they focus more on providing than they did before, especially if they become the sole breadwinner.

8. What are each of your favorite Babyproofing vocabulary terms?

Julia's Favorites: Midnight Chicken will always be at the top of my list. Gordon and I played it constantly - lying there pretending to be asleep hoping the other one would get up and take care of the crying baby down the hall. And definitely the Ten O'Clock Shoulder Tap. Because until we named it, I couldn't understand it, and when it was happening, it drove me up a tree. And also the Martyr Badge because oh, I was working so much harder than my husband, and oh, how I wore my suffering on my sleeve. That was me in a nutshell.

Stacie's Favorites: The Training Weekend always makes me smile. Once Ross survived a weekend of the non-stop diaper-changing/bottle-feeding gig (without any backup), the proverbial light bulb went off. He was no longer the man who came home from work 'whenever' and parked 'it' on the couch. And I am always amazed by how guys quickly organize themselves like flying geese in Perfect V Formation when they sense an opportunity to escape for the weekend. Women, by contrast, will come up with hundreds of excuses NOT to go away together. The unfairness of it all! Finally, given that I worked for ten years before I stayed home, I definitely experienced Whiplash, the feeling of hopping on a time machine and hurtling back to the 1950s. In fact, I'm still trying to find my way back.

Cathy's Favorites: The Mommy Chip because so much of our behavior as moms is driven by instinct and love. We're hostage to that love and hardwiring. It's nice to be able to say to Mike "It's the Mommy Chip" like it's not really my fault if I do something compulsive. Marriage Capital - the scorekeeping points that are traded back and forth between husbands and wives - is another favorite. Everyone plays the "who has it tougher?" game yet no one had ever articulated the rules of engagement. Who knew that positive capital has a use-by date whereas negative capital can be held against the holder indefinitely? Identifying the rules was a lot of fun and it also forced the three of us to own up to our own fairly spectacular scorekeeping.

9. What kind of reaction have you had to the book?

Most people have said things like, "Gee, this sounds familiar," or "Ouch, that hits a nerve." It seems that the book is starting the conversations we hoped it would. One woman told us that she read a couple of guy quotes from the sex chapter to her husband and asked, 'Is this how you feel?' Turns out it was. She said they ended up having the first real conversation they'd had in over a year. Guys have told us they're really happy to finally get a seat at the table. Universally, people are relieved to learn that they're not the only ones feeling frustrated and underappreciated. We've had several people say this book describes all the reasons why their first marriage broke up. It's terribly sad to hear that, but it really underlines how important it is to understand what happens to marriage after kids hit the scene.

10. How did three of you write a book together?

Ha! We had so much fun doing this together, but we can assure you the process was decidedly not pretty, especially because Julia lives halfway across the country from Cathy and Stacie! We wrote it really quickly, so it was kind of intense. Stacie and Cathy are both night owls, so they'd stay up until 1 or 2 in the morning, then email the latest bits to Julia, who is an early riser. She'd pick things back up at around 3am. None of us are exactly shrinking violets, either, so we were quick to challenge each other's assumptions. We think the book benefits from the fact that its contents have been churned through our collective gristmill. What's funny is that we agreed wholeheartedly about the major ideas in the book. Our knock-down drag-outs were over the most inconsequential things: commas versus semicolons; whether 'aspirational' is a word even though it doesn't come up in spellcheck; use of the word 'or.' Seriously, 'or!' It's been so rewarding to get to work together, learn from each other, and have a good time in the process. We feel really lucky.

11. Finally, is there hope? Do things ever get better?

Of course. It's a uniquely challenging time in a marriage, but the hurdles are not insurmountable. It's mostly about being proactive about your relationship and staying out of autopilot. When you have young children, a little action goes a long way. Small but strategic gestures can transform a marriage sapped by the demands of keeping a job and raising kids. Babyproofing Your Marriage has hundreds of suggestions to help couples get back on track. And we don't recommend anything that we haven't tried and seen work in our own marriages. Readers can think of us as their crash test dummies!

Like we said, nothing matters more to us than our families. All of us are trying to get it right on so many levels - for our kids, for our spouses, for ourselves. It's not easy. But it's not impossible, especially if we know where the other side is coming from and what they really need. We hope - like us -- this book will help couples find some answers.